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Liv: What are some of the things you dislike most about newer
RPGs?
* Ian hasn't played many newer RPGs. ^^;;
Josh: The idea that more is better, when they can't even get the little things right.
Derek: It really depends on the game.
Tom: Many new ones try too hard to be original, and end up being too weird and not enough fun. Once again, Magna Carta.
Michael: What Terrant said.
Matthew: I'm with Terrant, too.
Ian: I've only played FFX, sooooooo...
* Ian is out for this part.
Matthew: That's a really general question.
Rob: Yeah.
Ian: I dunno.
Liv: Just pick the ones that irk you the most.
Ian: Thinking back to the first question... I suppose some attempted originality isn't alway bad.
Ian: I mean, we don't wanna end up like the fighting game genre.
Derek: Perhaps the largest thing that bothers me is DS games
throwing in gimmicky stylus gameplay that doesn't actually help the game.
* Liv agrees with Roku!
* Ian agrees with Roku, unfortunately.
Ian: Nobody uses it... right.
Matthew: Isn't Dragon Quest the official standard-bearer of traditional gameplay?
Ian: Yes.
Michael: I might be the only one here like this, but I hated DQ8's gameplay.
David: DQ8 is hard to level with - you hardly get any exp, and you need a lot of exp to level.
Matthew: DQ8... takes a certain mindset, I guess.
* Ian hands out free exp.
Matthew: You need loyalty and patience like a rock.
Michael: I loved the game, but I just couldn't enjoy the battles.
Tom: It takes patience. Lots of patience.
* Ian remembers leveling all his characters in FFVIII to 100.
Michael: It felt like a trial of patience, that's for sure.
Ian: Patience...
Matthew: I liked the battles, actually. Most of the RPGs I've ever played were Final Fantasies, and it was refreshing to fight monster that took more than one hit to kill.
Rob: I think a great deal of the problems people have are that companies decide they want to radically change something a player is familiar with, instead of slowly evolving it, especially lately.
Rob: That and they don't seem to listen to the players a good deal of the time.
Liv: That's a good point.
Ian: I know!
Tom: Oh, FFVIII was pathetically easy to level. The point, however, was not to level, thanks to the "monsters' levels increase with you" gimmick.
Ian: I mean, I was doing a preview for DoC, and I read that SE altered some stuff from the Japanese build to the NA build, and I was like WTF?
Ian: That NEVER happens!
Liv: They did that when they first released FFIV and VI for the SNES.
Michael: Once again, I toss out FFXII. I sometimes think I was the only person that loved the gameplay from the first time I played the demo.
* Ian doesn't remember that long ago ^^: ;
* Liv wishes she had played the demo.
Matthew: I loved it, too. I thought it was great.
Rob: I hated the, demo but when I imported the game, I was hooked.
David: Ian: Our version of FF7 is Japan's international version.
Ian: Ok.
David: If i'm correct.
Derek: I believe you are.
Ian: So there's what, three examples? Out of how many RPGs?
Ian: And not just RPGs, lots games! All types!
Derek: Kingdom hearts had added features.
Liv: Final Fantasy X-2.
David: FFX-2... what was Square thinking?
* Ian loathed KH.
Ian: You mean, Square thinking dirty thoughts?
Rob: I loved FFX-2's gameplay, it was just the script that was silly.
David: Lulu isn't the first girl in FF to be pregnant though.
Michael: Oh, there are two games right there I've gotta talk about.
Michael: KH & FFX-2: fan fodder... nothing against those games, but I hate games that are made just because they will sell on name alone.
Ian: <3 you.
Matthew: Completely true.
Liv: I've noticed a lot of newer games that go over-the-top cheesy in a lot of parts, and that usually doesn't happen in older games.
Liv: Are they trying to appeal to more of an audience or something?
Ian: Well, of course, Liv.
Michael: Dirge...
Ian: It's always about the bottom line.
Ian: EXACTLY!
Rob: Too bad most series are fan fodder then. : P
Michael: Good point. Sad, but good.
Rob: I'm just as guilty as any of them.
Ian: Still, nobody's as bad as SE.
Liv: It's true.
David: I know someone who bought a used copy of FF7: DoC in Japan.
Rob: DoC was interesting, but I never did finish it.
Michael: I am guilty of being a supporting fanboy.
Matthew: Of course, they're very particularly aiming for something that'll appeal to everyone. Because of this, it's as if no one's trying to realize their dream anymore, and it's become just a heartless corporation. At least, that's how I see it.
Rob: I seem to notice that too.
Matthew: There's always got to be love story, because everyone's a sucker for that.
Liv: I HATE love stories...
Liv: Especially bad ones.
* Liv grumbles.
Michael: True, so true, but then I see SE do something that people seem to hate, like FFXII, and I have hope.
Rob: A new development team/house will come up with one amazing title, then kinda... slack.
Matthew: And we're always under the oppressive thumb of an evil corporation/religion/empire...
Michael: Xenosaga?
Matthew: sdlfjsdlkf
Matthew: Xenosaga's my blind spot. It can do no wrong in my eyes.
Rob: If I wanted to watch a movie, I would rent a movie. : P
Derek: Heh.
Liv: Exactly!!
Matthew: It's more than "watching" a movie!
Rob: I miss games that had no cutscenes.
Michael: A lot of newer games are doing more and more of that though.
Rob: Or ones that did, you had to use your imagination.
Matthew: You become part of it! Immersed in the character's every action, their entire lives!
Matthew: That's the point of all RPGs!
Michael: I'm with you Matthewl.
David: I heard xenosaga was an anime that had little interaction.
Rob: MOMO's peeping tom?
Matthew: God, I hate MOMO with a passion.
Rob: The only good Momo is Breath of Fire 3's Momo.
Matthew: Darn right.
Michael: RPGs are about story, so they can give that to me however they wish. Just let the story be good.
Rob: As long as the story doesn't interupt gameplay.
Rob: I get depressed when I tell my friends about a game's story getting in the way.
Michael: Newer titles do have a harder time finding the line between the two.
Matthew: Come on. Xenosaga had vastly long cutscenes (the longest is about 45 minutes) and had no dungeon music... compare this with what I said above about making something everyone will like and realizing dreams and such.
Liv: I love games where you can customize a ton of stuff.
Michael: I don't want to customize everything, though. I like to just play without thinking about it at times.
Matthew: It's nice to have the option to customize stuff...
Rob: I like customizing stuff as long as I don't get forced to use a customization system I don't want to use.
Liv: Ok, a few more comments, and then the last subtopic!
Liv: This is true...
Matthew: Me, I'm very happy with the systems in Disgaea and Dark Cloud 2, for instance.
David: We need more games with a battle system like Chrono Trigger has.
David: Chrono trigger had a smooth system which was butchered by
the PSX release of the game.
* Liv agrees with David.
Matthew: Chrono Trigger is one of the all-time epics, period. Everything about that game is fantastic.
Rob: Don't get me started on horrible ports.
David: Chrono Cross was more like a new game with a hint of Chrono you had battle screens unlike Chrono Trigger where the map was the screen.
Michael: I have to ask... what defines "old" and "new" in terms of RPGs?
Liv: I would say... anything made since 2000 would be new.
Matthew: I wouldn't pin it to dates. I'd say that the PS2-generation is "new" and everything else is "old." Of course, this will soon shift...
Michael: I hate to think of FFVII as old.
* Liv happily goes with what Matthew said.
Matthew: Then think of it as a classic.
Michael: I think of FFIV as a classic.
Michael: I'm just getting too old.
David: Only game that's coming close to Chrono Trigger is FFXII.
Liv: Ok... last subtopic!
* Matthew nods.
Matthew: You and me both.
David: I like VI better than VII.
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