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Liv: Ok, last topic! Though this covers some of what we've already discussed... what games, in your opinion, are the most original? And then, what games contain the most
clichés? Does the originality of a game have anything to do with how much you like it?
Diana: Chrono Trigger.
Michael: Disgaea.
Michael: Everyone's evil? Whoa.
Diana: Main character is a regular fellow, he DIES, semi-main Villian actually joins team...
Tom: It's a double-edges sword. On one hand, seeing certain clichés in games are like old friends... you welcome them, they're fun. On the other hand, I love a game that tries to be original.
Diana: Main Villian DOESNT TALK.
Liv: I think the older games that seemingly "set" the clichés are some of the best. Even going back and playing them and reliving the
cliché, it isn't as bad since it came first.
Ann: I would agree, Liv... as for originality - I root for the older games. They made the
clichés in the first place... so essentially, they aren't clichéd at the point of production.
Marshall: Hm... most original is probably Xenosaga... still on the fence about most clichéd.
Liv: Yeah.
Diana: Suikoden III was rather fresh, probably because of the three different viewpoints...
Diana: And one of the main characters was a girl that was KNOWN FOR FIGHTING
Joshua: Indeed, what would happen without dungeons and dragons? :P
Ann: I recently re-played Star Tropics... I think I have to go with that the most original.
Michael: I love original games, but the clichéd interaction systems are the most annoying for me. I can stand a plot point being a little
clichéd, but not combat.
Tom: Suikoden compared to other series' is usually pretty fresh... but each game is a
cliché on the ones before it. Gameplay and characters are re-used often.
Diana: True.
Tom: I'd have to say Earthbound for most original though... or it's up there.
Marshall: Yes, Earthbound is definitely on the top of the list for originality.
Diana: Yeah. Def.
Ann: Earthbound was quite original... though its battle system was a little too much like Dragon Warrior to be give the title of most original.
Joshua: I never played Earthbound, heh...
Tom: Well, I meant in terms of characterization and story.
Ann: In story... oh hands down! Earthbound is out there.
Marshall: One of the things I respect about the Final Fantasy series is that they change the battle system for each game.
Michael: Super Mario RPG.
Liv: One of my favorite RPGs is Super Mario RPG.
Liv: Oh!
* Liv huggles Michael.
* Michael ^5s Liv.
* Diana loves Super Mario RPG.
Marshall: Ah, Mario RPG was my very first RPG, and it's still one of the best.
Tom: Yeah, Super Mario RPG is awesome.
Liv: Even with the number of clichés it has, it's one of the most clever games I've played.
Liv: It doesn't try to be too serious.
Joshua: The most original RPG is probably, in my opinion, Bloodnet.
Joshua: A VERY odd game. It's a cyberpunk game in a postapocalpytic new york where you're bitten by a vampire and have to fight back inhumanity, but get blood while on your quest to be restored back to a human.
Joshua: Bloodnet was definently an original game not because it was really original.
Joshua: But the fact that it combined more than one sort of genre and concept.
Diana: Secret of Mana was kinda nice in originality department.
Liv: Especially with the battle system.
Liv: That was fairly new when it game out, right?
Michael: Action RPGs have a lot of trouble being original.
Diana: Right, and how many games feature Santa claus?
Tom: True Michael.
Marshall: .hack is a good example of unoriginality in action/RPGs. Great story, but gameplay gets absolutely painful after a while.
Diana: Chrono Trigger has an original battle system... like a mix between Secret of Mana and then Final Fantasy.
Michael: The idea of .hack was wonderful... too bad the execution sucked.
Diana: With combo attacks straight outta Xenosaga, or maybe Suikoden's combo attacks.
Tom: I have high hopes for .Hack//GU.
Marshall: .hack/Infection and Xenosaga came out around the same time. I played them both and thought "How can people even compare these two?"
Marshall: I liked them both, don't get me wrong, but Xenosaga's battle system really stayed pretty fresh the whole time.
Ann: Shadow Run... I think that would be another to add to the list... if it hasn't been already.
Liv: I'm not sure what really draws me to a game, but I know that when I start seeing the same characters being reused from a million other games, it completely turns me off.
Liv: Like in Arc the Lad: Twilights of the Spirits, Karg was just... too much for me.
Liv: Him and all his "Justice!!"
Marshall: .hack, you start out continually pressing "X"... and that's how you end three games later.
Michael: I just like a game where you don't have to rescue a princess/girl/etc.
Joshua: The games that contain the most clichés, is, like said
before the very first ones because they set the clichés.
* Ann agrees.
Diana: The new tradition of voice actors not saying the Main Characters name is ANNOYING.
Diana: Hey you, yeah you, blitzball player.
Liv: I completely agree.
Liv: That's really, really annoying.
Diana: Like, even with Suikoden V - his name isn't "PRINCE"!!!
Tom: Well, the idea of not naming the main character is so the gamer can -become- that character in a sense.
Ann: I actually didn't notice that they never said the main character's name.
Diana: Right, but its dumb.
Ann: XD
Michael: True, but I hate that idea.
Diana: Because, it sort of sacrifices realism.
Marshall: I noticed. Even if it helps the player get in character, it really kills character interaction.
Marshall: It makes no sense that you could go on an 80-hour quest and never say your party member's name.
Diana: Or search for him for 2 years and never say his name. *cough* Yuna *cough*
Liv: That's why in Kingdom Hearts, when they actually said Tidus for the first time...
Liv: I was like... what? That's not how *I* pronounced it.
Liv: But in Kingdom Hearts II, they changed it, lol.
Diana: Did they?
Diana: That sucks.
Diana: It should have stayed Tidus - "Teedus."
Liv: Yeah. Now it's pronounced "Tai-dus."
Michael: If I'm playing a D&D type RPG or MMORPG, I want to name and become my character, not in a mostly linear one.
Tom: They changed it in KHII? I played through and never even noticed.
Liv: In the scene with Selphie and Kairi in school uniforms.
Liv: I remember because I was cheering.
Diana: Right - if you're playing Oblivion, go ahead and name your character. But a FF? Give him a name!
Marshall: "I love you, blitzball player!"
Michael: Single character RPG are great if you want to name your character, but for party RPGs... it is just odd.
Joshua: I just finished playing Indigo prophecy not long ago, and although it wasn't really an RPG, it was completely original because of it's gameplay which was extremely simple. All the controls were basically just the arrow keys and numpad. Mouse, too. No letter keys.
Liv: That's weird...
Joshua: The action scenes were extremely simple and relied just on reflexes, but it had a good storyline.
Liv: I've never even heard of it, lol.
Diana: Heard of it - sleeper hit.
Marshall: Haven't played it yet; I may pick it up at some point.
Joshua: Sleeper hit?
Diana: Er wait, yeah, I used that term correctly.
Joshua: What's a sleeper hit? >_>
Marshall: Yeah, you used it correctly.
Diana: Like, big with the critics, loved dearly with fans, but not popular in general.
Alicia: A game that's awesome, but not popular.
Marshall: It's a game that gets a good fan following or good reviews, but the sales are so-so.
Diana: Like Ico.
* Michael eyes Suikoden.
Marshall: Ah, now Ico was a great twist on the "Save the princess" idea.
Joshua: Ah. I see.
Joshua: Sleeper hit, yeah.
Michael: Ah clichés...
Joshua: The thing is people gave it awesome reviews because of the good storyline and the originality.
Liv: Ok, let's start to wrap it up. Any last comments on most/least original RPGs?
Diana: Yeah, we need some more original RPGs.
Diana: Haha.
Michael: Hmmm... least original RPGs...
Marshall: I'd say that RPGs should err on the side of risk rather than caution.
Diana: No seriously though, it's all in the characters and settings.
Marshall: As long as they keep it recognizable, developers shouldn't be afraid to try out new battle mechanics, character types, or story directions.
Michael: People want to kill FFXII because of that, though.
Joshua: RPGs need to have a good storyline. Without them it's just a graphic D&D.
Diana: Yep.
Michael: I, however, am dreaming of playing FFXII.
Liv: Agreed.
Diana: I cant wait for FFXII.
Liv: I'm very excited to play FFXII. At least to try it out, you know?
Marshall: Well, ideally, even D&D should have a compelling story.
Ann: I think that a balance of using clichés and originality together make certain video games appealing.
Michael: FFXII wins points for trying something new.
* Liv agrees with Ann!
Joshua: Well, what I mean, Marshall, is that its just a bunch of dice rolling and loot getting.
Marshall: The lure of RPGs - tabletop and video game - is the ability to really become a character over a long period of time and get engrossed in a quest.
Joshua: Indeed Ann.
Diana: I like having motives that make sense... not just going on a quest because I want the loot.
Marshall: So an original plot is absolutely essential, and interesting gameplay mechanics are vital to keep someone playing.
Liv: Definitely.
Michael: I hate required side quests, too.
Marshall: Define "required side quest." Seems like an oxymoron.
Michael: Oh, you are trying to defeat the ultimate evil? Well, get this soup for me and I will tell you how to find out.
Marshall: Ah, hah, all right. That can get pretty irritating.
Michael: Off the main plot line, but still required.
Liv: Ok, final, final comments!
Ann: Those are the worst!
Liv: Last words!
Michael: Final Comment: Three cheers for FFXII.
Marshall: My final comment: clichés are a tool, and a tool can be used constructively or destructively. They should ideally be a walking stick, not a crutch.
Diana: Final Comment: Chrono Trigger is amazing.
Diana: Think about it.
Ann: Final Comment? Oblivion was a very original game. =)
Liv: Lol, anyone else?
Michael: Thought about it.
Michael: Done.
Diana: Good.
Liv: I'm going... going... going...
Liv: Gone!
Liv: We're done!!
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