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Liv: There are two sides to every coin. What are some of the cons AND pros to RPG
clichés?
Michael: A pro to clichés is that they give gamers what they expect a lot of times.
Marshall: Well, the cons are obvious; an overabundance of clichés make a game very predictable.
Joshua: Well, there are just things practically all good RPGs have to have. :P
Liv: Indeed.
Tom: Well the biggest pro is comfort.
Joshua: Indeed.
Marshall: A big pro, though, is that developers can take a few things for granted and worry about developing deeper aspects.
Liv: This is true.
Liv: If everything were completely different, it might turn us away.
Joshua: It wouldn't really be an RPG.
Marshall: For example, it's a cliché that the hero is just going to go out and do good stuff. Doesn't matter why. If you take that for granted, you can spend more time developing the story.
Joshua: It'd end up being a really weird game *cough*Bloodnet*cough*- or something.
Tom: Exactly. We clamor for originality in the market, but I know games with TOO many new elements seem confusing. Once again, looking at you, Magna Carta.
Michael: With so many RPGs out there, it is tough to be 100% original, so as long as the cliché is not overdone...
Diana: Hmm..
Liv: Yeah, it's when it's overused that it becomes a problem.
Marshall: If you can predict every plot twist and every character history in a game, then the clichés have taken over.
Joshua: Like unnatural haircolor/hairstyles. xD
Michael: Yeah, who has green hair?
Liv: Or pink!
Marshall: But if you can just look at the game and say, "OK, this is a setting I'm comfortable with," that's a good use of clichés.
Diana: To me RPG Clichés biggest cons is unrealism.
Joshua: Blue hair?
Joshua: Indeed, a good point Diana.
Tom: Yeah, a fantasy or Sci-Fi setting is pretty much a given.
Joshua: Nobody REALLY has unlimited time to think about what they're next attack will be.
Liv: Like, I enjoy fantasy games with cozy little towns and castles and stuff... but your main character is always some heroic knight saving a princess or something.
Joshua: Heh.
Liv: Realism is a very good point.
Michael: You just don't want too much realism.
Diana: Oh, you know what I hate? Two town worlds - with a big castle, and that's it.
Joshua: Heh.
Liv: Me too!
Diana: Sorry, that's off-topic, but I forgot to mention it earlier.
Liv: Give me a huge world to explore!
Liv: But not with too many battles, lol.
Marshall: Well, the Shadow Hearts series tries to use fantastical elements in a realistic setting.
Diana: Hehe.
Marshall: It works with varying degrees of success.
* Liv has never played that, but would like to.
Diana: Pros of clichés...
Diana: Hm...
Michael: Yeah, even with a huge world and large cities like Midgar in FFVII, why was it the only town in the middle of nowhere?
Joshua: Funny how you find stuff like apples or such that can increase your intelligence or strength.
Joshua: Like: You find INT apple! You gain 5 INT!
Tom: Huge worlds are fine, but please, lower the encounter rate! Walking across a few hundred thousand figurative square miles is painful if you have to fight every three steps.
Alicia: I'm with you, Tom.
Diana: Right.
Tom: Oh wait, talking about food...how can a turkey cure you of near-death wounds?
Tom: "Aw crud, cut myself shaving. Honey, do we have a muffin? I need to heal."
Michael: Hahaha.
Michael: An apple a day.
Liv: I think a con of RPGs is the characters, many times.
Joshua: Haha. I love that.
Diana: Like, I love the idea of say, sailing from populated island to island, but when it takes, like, 800 encouners to get there... ugh.
Joshua: ALWAYS there is the whole 'Miracle Inn'.
Liv: Characters from game to game seem to have the same personalities, stories, etc. a lot of times.
Diana: *cough* Suiko IV *cough*
Liv: It gets really annoying, like the same game with a different name.
Michael: Yes, the Miracle Inn, how silly.
Marshall: Ah, classic. Sleep cures everything from poison to death.
Joshua: Hahaha.
* Liv can't help it and cracks up.
Diana: Pros to clichés are convenience.
Diana: As much as the idea of having to stay in a town for, like, a week before my next outing is exciting...
Diana: I do like having instant Inn healing.
Joshua: My thing is that if you die in battle... poof! You have a revive.
Joshua: But when OTHER people die as part of the STORYLINE?
Joshua: Lawl, screw them. No revive for you. Just stay dead.
Joshua: Just stay dead.
Diana: Dude...
Diana: Chrono dying = an amazing plot twist.
Marshall: Hah.
Michael: Ok, and when you get hit with a sword, you just lose hit points. In real life, you would lose a limb or something.
Joshua: HAHAHA, so true Michael.
Tom: Another cliché - monsters dropping loot. I mean...where does a rat store 15gp and a sword?
Joshua: Haha, I love that.
Marshall: Ah, but realistic money-gaining is dangerous waters.
Marshall: In Xenosaga, for example, the only way to make money was to play poker. Lots and lots of poker.
Marshall: Realistic? Maybe, but also... well... annoying.
Michael: Rats have big stomachs.
Joshua: Ew.
Diana: Haha.
Michael: And FFXII is going to be similar.
Joshua: The thing is - the main character ALWAYS has some amazing history or power.
Joshua: It's always cool, but pretty weird.
Joshua: Like in WA2 Ashley can turn into a Demon. Lawl.
Liv: What are some more pros and cons?
Diana: Pros... hmm...
Diana: Clichés can sometimes open doors for awesome surprises.
Diana: For instance, we get in our head, "oh, this is a stock character," so we kind of just put 'em aside, but then BAM! They have some big surprise.
Joshua: Indeed.
Diana: The cliché-ness almost adds to the shock value.
Joshua: People NEED to add in some secret power or something. :P
Marshall: Here's a big pro: clichés can be satired.
Liv: I agree!
Michael: Yes, when clichés lead us to believe one thing and then give us another, that's good.
Liv: Adding a surprise after a cliché has gotten me many times.
Diana: Like, say a stock hero. You play with him for a couple hours, then you find out he's maybe... murdered someone or something.
Liv: Or is dead. *ooooh 6th Sense*
Diana: Usually those guys are moody types.
Marshall: Surprises following clichés are some of my favorites. I know I keep citing the Tales series, but it tends to do that well.
Diana: So, when this upstanding guy turns out to have done something like that, it's cool.
Liv: I agree.
Diana: Tidus was a break of cliché, whatever you may say about the rest of FFX. Well, except the mangirl part.
Marshall: However, Knights of the Old Republic takes the cake for best surprise following a cliché.
Liv: When they make people look and act like their exact personality, but then change it completely, then it's awesome.
Tom: Tidus WAS a pointy haired swordsman, but he was a clichébreaker in many other senses.
Joshua: Oh yeah!
Joshua: Pointy haired swordsman...
Joshua: HUGE SWORDS, LAWL.
Diana: Oh you know whats a huge, huge, huge cliché?
Joshua: Oh?
Diana: Hometown/city being destroyed.
Joshua: Actually, yep.
Marshall: Yes, that's an annoying one.
Joshua: You can come from the middle of nowhere, then come back as a famous star... only, hey! Our town got crushed by the moon!
Liv: That's a very annoying one.
Tom: I liked how when he first got his sword, he had no idea how to use it and was clumsy. One
cliché I hate is how your character, no matter how inexperienced, has a knack for battle at the get-go.
Diana: I was about to mention that Tom!
Liv: Lol.
Marshall: You know, in real life, some people are just naturally good-hearted. There are people in the real world who go out and do good deeds just because it's the right thing to do. Why do RPG heroes always need some kind of direct motivation?
Michael: And why does no one else from that town help them?
Joshua: Lol.
Diana: I've always wanted a character that like, got drafted into the army or something and was a normal guy...
Diana: Then got sorta chucked into the middle of things.
Joshua: Yeah, go save the freaking world, but still pay 100 gella to sleep here, ya twit.
Marshall: The hero goes out because his town gets destroyed, but if the villain didn't destroy his hometown, the hero would never think twice about going on a quest to stop him.
Tom: Yeah, everyone else in the town is either "normal people" or some retired adventurer, too old to help but happy to give useless advice.
Joshua: Hahaha.
Joshua: So true.
Liv: Ok! A few more comments and we'll move to the last topic!
Marshall: One of the reasons why I like Bioware games is because there are always other adventurers out there.
Marshall: You get wrapped up in your quest, they have theirs...
Joshua: Lets see...
Michael: And there are only two houses in the whole town for the 20 people living there. And no beds or bathrooms.
Diana: Jade Empire had huge locations which were nice.
Diana: Like, the Capital of the Empire was realistic to me.
Marshall: Not to mention the fact that breaking and entering is perfectly ok.
Joshua: In real life you don't get 'experience' by killing rats 100 times.
Joshua: Seriously, you don't get any more knowledgable.
Marshall: Believe it or not, that's an area that Diablo, of all series, handles very well.
Marshall: You get less experience every time you kill a certain kind of monster.
Diana: That's cool.
Marshall: Kill a skeleton once, get X experience. Kill it again, get X-1 experience, etc.
Marshall: And it makes sense. There comes a point where you have the art of skeleton-killing at perfection.
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