Andrew: There were many other RPGs at E3 other than just these single-player ones we've been talking about. In fact, it seemed that MMORPGs had practically taken over at E3. What are people's opinions on these next-generation MMORPGs?

Googleshng: I think everyone knows how I feel about MMORPGs by now. From what I've seen, most gamers' complaints about MMORPGs are that they charge monthly fees, require a major time commitment, and have no real story at all. All of which are defining qualities of the genre. Of course, I still say there is some potential in running an MMORPG on ads instead of fees.

Justin W: I disagree, Goog. Think of how much income Everquest makes with its ($12 now, is it?) a player a month fee. It would take a LOT of advertising to even come near that.

Justin H: I hate to say this, but I've never been particularly enamored with MMORPGs, and the developers seem to be copying one another more than adding new elements geared toward attracting new gamers. In fact, given that a good percentage of RPGamers out there would already be involved with MMORPGs if they wanted to makes me wonder where these companies think their audience for all these new MMORPGs will come from.

Andrew: So thus far, we've come to the conclusion that MMORPGs lack substance, form, and appeal. Anyone care to respond to that?

Justin W: The second generation of MMORPGs seem to take most gamers' complaints about the first generation into account. For instance, Shadowbane takes just those elements that make addicts out of Everquest players (self-government, ownership of property) and makes them a full game. Star Wars: Galaxies is just such a huge game with so much to do that I really think it will attract any type of player. It certainly has this gamer's dollars when it's released, and I've never liked MMORPGs.

Brandon: Well, I would be quite interested in playing Star Wars Galaxies if I didn't first have to go to enormous amounts of trouble to acquire all the necessary means with which to play it. To play Galaxies, I'd have to buy a new video card, more memory, and get a broadband connection. I can walk down to WalMart and buy Final Fantasy X, go home, and play it. Easy.

Andrew: Fees do seem to be a major deterrent, particularly where the console market is concerned.

Justin H: I fear that too many companies out there are jumping on the MMORPG bandwagon because they like the pay-per-play business model rather than a real desire to explore the types of gameplay options and connectivity that the genre has potential for.

Matthew: I think that Blizzard may honestly have a chance with its MMORPG. The major complaints that Goog has mentioned with MMORPGs seems to have been responded to by Blizzard.

Googleshng: World of WarCraft actually does have a lot more potential than most, if only for the fact that the source material is better suited to being massively multiplayer than most. The Final Fantasy franchise for example is based on a small group of characters saving the world, which doesn't really work with thousands of people running around, but WarCraft has always been about groups of a few hundred units running around.

Justin W: the problem with a game like WoW was that it apparently wasn't all that interesting or fun to play, at least at E3. Perhaps MMORPGs rely on those qualities that people dislike in order to provide a fun gaming experience.

Googleshng: Paying by the month is fun now?

Justin W: No, but perhaps the monthly fee keeps certain people from playing the game that would play it simply to ruin the experience for other people. Forcing a big time commitment helps create an immersive world with a contingent of friends met within that world.

Brandon: I doubt that unless TRUE world threatening danger is afoot could Final Fantasy XI work. It could be great, if real ideas based on the advantages that MMORPG has to offer were used - universal factions, armies, and large-scale assaults.

Justin H: But instead, Square has committed to what is, by most console gamer accounts, an Everquest clone with scattered FF elements.

Andrew: Do you think this could have a negative impact on the FF series as a whole?

Justin H: Unfortunately, no. FFXI will get enough players to make a fair amount of money and console gamers will be all too ready to forgive and forget when FFXII is released.

Googleshng: Since FFXI offers little that can't be found in any other MMORPG and isn't really enhancing the appeal of the Final Fantasy games, it will really be selling on name alone. I've seen so many letters from readers complaining about how they're being "forced" to buy FFXI because it's called Final Fantasy, however, that the name alone would account for surprisingly many sales.

Andrew: What does everyone think can be done to improve MMORPGs to the point where they'll have mainstream appeal and / or appeal in the more "hardcore" RPG market? Basically, what I'm asking is: what conditions would have to be satisfied for you to play an MMORPG?

Justin H: I still say the pay-per-play model is the largest obstacle to getting people who are uninterested in MMORPGs to give them a try. The idea of a plotted FF in which you and your friends use the Internet to control different party members would appeal to me. Unfortunately, FFXI is nothing like that.

Justin W: Have it be Star Wars. =)

Googleshng: I would play a MMORPG if it was free, I had a GM paying attention to everything I personally do, and I wouldn't fall behind in levels if I didn't touch it for a week. Like Neverwinter Nights. From what I've seen, it actually chucks both out the window and emulates paper RPG appeal. It's multiplayer, but not massively so, which I actually like more, conceptually. I'd rather play a game with half a dozen friends than 200 strangers. MMORPGs and standard RPGs just appeal to two very different types of people. I don't really think you can bring the two together.

Brandon: I'm going to have to agree with Google. They're two totally different types of games. The only way they'll ever have appeal is if there exists a real storyline within the dynamic world that everyone experiences at one time, and broadband Internet MUST be very widely available. And free. Imagine large scale army battles and scenarios with thousands of troops exploring large dungeons at one time, fighting to confront world threatening danger! It could be a plot based MMORPG, and offer a real plot line. Mages using fire, attackers on the front line... Like the first battle against Sin in FFX, but in real time...

Googleshng: I agree that setting up wars would help the genre. There's some nasty logistical issues there though. Keeping things evenly matched, for example.

Brandon: True, you'd have to make sure level 100 hardcore players don't storm the base in 5 seconds and ruin it all for the newbies.

Googleshng: I was thinking more along the lines of keeping people from defecting to the winning side.

Matthew: Games like Everquest attempt to solve this by creating different servers for different characters, like PK servers, or player killer servers, where veterans can kill newbies, and non-PK servers, where this isn't allowed.

Justin H: The main problem there is that it still asks console gamers to go from saving the world to being a lowly soldier in a war. The appeal for some goes right out the window.

Googleshng: True, but it is a step up from a chat room containing kobolds.

Brandon: in any game with thousands of players, not everyone can be special. That's part of the appeal, though. Being able to start your own little communities within the larger, looming world.

Googleshng: But, since console RPGs are based around the idea that you control "The Chosen One", these games really do appeal to two very different audiences.

Justin W: Enter Star Wars: Galaxies, where becoming a Jedi is near-impossible... it just sort of "happens."

Justin H: Which, for me, is no fun. If I'm going to play Star Wars, I want to be a Jedi. Not just be good and hope it happens.

Andrew: I don't know.. I see the logic in making not everyone a Jedi. Think of how good that'll make becoming a Jedi. It'd be something worth working towards, and might even add extra incentive to playing the game. I think specialties like that are what MMORPGs need more of... Obviously, there's still going to be lots of Jedi.

Justin W: Well, any character can be a Jedi, no matter how you create your character or what race you are. The path to become force-sensitive is a toughly-guarded secret. Basically, there's a huge equation that makes you force-sensitive, but nobody knows how to do it, and once you do it, you don't know how you did it. LucasArts seemed very proud of how difficult it would be to figure out. It's kind of like getting the "perfect" rank on Perfect Dark... it took people over five months to figure out how it actually happens.

Justin H: Which wonderfully throws Star Wars continuity and logic out the window at the same time.

Justin W: It really doesn't... the means to becoming Force-sensitive changes, yeah, but the end result is more accurate to the mythos than any other way I can think of.

Googleshng: I think his point was that after a very short period of time, everyone would be a Jedi.

Justin W: Well, it at least makes it so that only people that play their character the right way can become Jedi, instead of a bunch of "Tr00p4h-K1LL4z" running around with lightsabers. And besides, even if it's eventually revealed how to become a Jedi, it would still be really difficult... so only the dedicated people would be Jedi. That's my hope, at least

Matthew: First usage of 1337-speak automatically prevents you from being a Jedi, I think. That would work well, honestly.

Andrew: Yeah. I'm speaking strictly on the assumption that LucasArts/Sony will take the proper steps to ensure becoming a Jedi remains reasonably difficult, and that once you become a Jedi, any extended abuse of the power would, say, turn you to the dark side, or have your character otherwise ruined. On a more basic level, I think there has to be some sort of innovation like that that makes MMORPGs less communistic in nature. If you can just farm your way to riches and glory or kill rats till you're level 85, the genre will never be what it can be.

Justin H: The fact that the only way to enjoy MMORPG's are to buy them the day they come out and enjoy them for the first few months before cheating becomes insanely prevalent still irks me to no end.

Matthew: In many ways, it seems to me that companies are each addressing 1 or 2 concerns, and as an industry, all concerns are covered, but it's interesting that no single game addresses all, or even a majority of the concerns that MMORPGs have.

Justin H: Which explains why I'm still not playing a single one of them. I guess the real problem here is that those of us who aren't playing MMORPGs still don't feel like we're missing out on anything, and until we do, we're not going to jump on board.