Googleshng: Hello, and welcome to another Roundtable discussion here at RPGamer. Tonight we'll be discussing humor, good taste, and imitation, as they relate to RPGs, but first, let's have our panelists introduce themselves.

Drethelin: Hi, I'm Drethelin.

Zack: What's up, you lot? Haven't seen you since about Tuesday. Anyhow, 'tis I, Zachary, the mildly-awesome, of Points of View fame.

Bartkusa: I'm Bartkusa, generic nerd extraordinaire. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Susan: Hello, I'm Susan Richardson. I ran RPGamer's Fan Art section for quite some time, and have recently become a wife to a Brit who, sadly, prefers computer RPGs to console ones.

Brian: I'm Brian Hagen, I'm a bit late, and my teeth are clean!

Googleshng: Our first topic tonight is the tastefulness of clothing in RPGs. It used to be that the average RPG character would go around in your standard suit of armor, or simple tunic, typical fantasy fare. In recent years however, more games seem to feature characters looking more like what you'd see on the covers of fantasy novels, with chainmail bikinis being on the conservative side. Thoughts?

Zack: It's all about the belts.

Susan: I'm all for it, so long as the character is attractive and male.

Drethelin: What vexes me about RPG clothing is that it tends not to change. If it's winter, no one wears coats.

Googleshng: This is true.

Susan: Agreed, Dre. I'd like to see a game where armor changes were visible, clothing changed with situation, and so forth--like if characters were going to a royal court, dressing appropriately, and having that effect stats and so forth.

Drethelin: Yes. Morrowind for one attempted that.

Susan: All the Elder Scrolls did.

Drethelin: If you spoke with a noble, they would respect you more if you had fancy clothes.

Susan: I remember playing a nymph in Daggerfall and having her run around completely naked. It was amusing. It was a bit disturbing that you COULD just have your characters completely naked and nobody cared.

Bartkusa: Having recently started Xenosaga (lacking a PS2, I'm out of the loop), I must say I'm rather disturbed by the game's fashion choices. Shion Uzuki has a magic skirt that magically changes length to conceal her nether regions, while the 10-year-old MOMO is practically an exhibitionist.

Zack: The only time I've had a problem with regular clothing designs in recent memory was with Eiko in FF9. The crotch of her pants was so flesh-toned that I was afraid Square had finally all-out announced a corporation sized pervness.

Drethelin: Heh.

Googleshng: Historically, the occasional breach of modesty has always been in there. The last boss of nearly every 16-bit game, for example, was a big nude female humanoid of a random color. I think we can all agree though that it became a heck of a lot more commonplace when Nomura started doing Square's character designs.

Zack: I agree though, that costume changes would be an easily added detail that would add a lot to some games.

Bartkusa: I think the practicality of RPG clothing only goes as far as a game's willingness to avoid abstraction. I'm not going to expect changing character models in a game where party members live inside the party leader's body, only coming out for battles.

Drethelin: That's a good point.

Googleshng: On a related note, I really miss RPGs where everyone walked in a little line.

Zack: For those who didn't catch my earlier reference about belts, that was aimed at Nomura. The man has an unhealthy fascination with giving out a belt to every character on a given planet.

Drethelin: Well, belts are a common piece of apparel.

Drethelin: I wear a belt. It helps keep my pants up.

Googleshng: More than one usually. What did Lulu have? 30? 40?

Drethelin: Those weren't really belts though. More sort of decorative straps.

Susan: I do agree that fashions have become more "cool" and less probable. If I were an adventurer, I wouldn't wear anything that revealing. A nice thick suit of leather armor, breeches, sturdy boots... Short hair. I mean, hairstyles have gotten completely nuts in RPGs lately.

Susan: But let's put it this way--how many RPGs out there are aiming for realism, and how popular would a "realistic" game be? If female characters didn't dress ridiculously, would as many people be drawn to the games to begin with? As stupid as it is, it's sound marketing. The average RPG player is a male between the ages of 14 and 30, so you'd better believe that at the very least the marketing people at companies like Square believe that making attractive, scantily-clad female characters will help the games sell.

Bartkusa: Square had/has a fixation with "style." Pretty much all of their games try SO HARD to be something original, and the easiest way to differentiate is add things to cultural things like outfits. Ornamentation++.

Brian: People wouldn't be as interested if there wasn't a hint of exoticness to the characters. Companies can get that exoticness easily through clothing, it seems.

Zack: In my opinion Nomura did a passably decent job in clothing Donald and Goofy.

Drethelin: I personally prefer personality to appearance in characters.

Susan: But personality can manifest IN appearance.

Drethelin: Jan Jansen in BG2 was a simple-looking gnome, but he was still awesome.

Bartkusa: Well, with clothing, there's a whole world of first impressions that go along with that.

Googleshng: Nomura did a rather terrible job of clothing NPCs in FF10 though. Half the characters in the background are practically nude.

Drethelin: True.

Drethelin: Well, they do live on tropical Islands.

Brian: What's wrong with nudity? :D

Susan: Physical appearance is a way that artists, game designers, movie directors and so forth give clues as to the personality of a character. It's an important aspect that shouldn't be ignored.

Drethelin: But it shouldn't be focused on to the exclusion of developing actual personality.

Googleshng: True, but it isn't exactly connected to Sephiroth's personality that he has no shirt.

Susan: Well, yes, but that's different. Sephiroth is hot. Though I'd like him just as much if he had a shirt.

Bartkusa: Absolutely. Of course, there's the danger of expecting the artists to do all the work of differentiation, and then the scripters letting the characters fall flat.

Susan: However, I do think that for the most part, the character designs used lately make the female characters seem like either coy little princesses or raging bimbos.

Brian: Well, let's put it this way: Would you like a girl in prison garb and a face like a troll with a perky personality, or would you like a girl in an original costume and showing some skin with a perky personality?

Googleshng: I'd rather have more clothes on Etna from Disgaea really. Come to think of it, there isn't a shirt in the whole game. Well, not on any of the demons at any rate.

Bartkusa: I would like the troll-girl. Just for novelty's sake.

Brian: After it's done, though, Bart.... doing it again would lessen its novelty.

Susan: Novelty plays a big part in it... but the problem is they're so novel that they all begin to look alike.

Drethelin: There really isn't much novelty in games these days.

Bartkusa: Hey, let's save the third topic for the appointed time, Dreth.

Googleshng: RPGs at least no. There never really has been a lot of novelty in the genre. RPGs change less than anything else.

Susan: Point is, I want a good story, not Girls Gone Wild the Video Game.

Brian: Then play a text-based RPG, Susan?

Susan: But then there are no cute scantily clad MEN!

Googleshng: Actually there's both, making out in public constantly. At least in every MUD I've glanced at.

Susan: MUDs generally suck, though...

Drethelin: If the population of female gamers was larger, there would probably be more. Or if the population of female game developers was larger.

Googleshng: Those do seem to be rather rare come to think of it.

Googleshng: I can, in fact, only name one single female game developer.

Susan: I'd be one if I wasn't going to end up an art teacher stuck in the wilds of England...

Drethelin: I can't think of any at all off the top of my head, and only a few females involved at all in the industry.

Googleshng: Well, E3 has plenty of booth babes, but that's doubtfully what you meant.

Brian: I can name a couple of female game developers. There's a lot more than that, they just don't get much publicity.

Susan: I have a close female friend that goes to Digipen...

Bartkusa: What happened to Stevie Case?

Brian: She's one of the ones I could name, Bart.

Googleshng: Few developers get any publicity period when you get right down to it.

Bartkusa: In any case, I'm tired of style. I'd like to see characters interact with their environment more, including their clothing choices. It'd do wonders for immersion.

Zack: Yeah. Tidus in his Blitzball get-up, trudging up Mt. Gagazet wasn't that immersing in realism.

Susan: True.

Googleshng: Attempting to bring us back on track once more, is anyone here legitimately bothered by the massive number of girls in their underwear gracing the cases of their games?

Susan: Yes.

Brian: Not really. I don't find it disturbing nor enticing... well, maybe a bit enticing, but not in a horny-fashion.

Susan: More because the games are being marketed toward an audience that isn't me.

Bartkusa: It's so fake. It's too much like commercialism in the real world. I'm sick of being sold sex. I'm with Brian; it doesn't even phase me anymore.

Zack: It may not phase you, but does it deter you?

Susan: When a game has a picture of a scantily clad woman on the front, my impression is "Nothing there for me."

Brian: I dunno, Susan... studies show that women are more likely to be bisexual than men.

Susan: I am bisexual. But that's not the point. I don't play games to see breasts.

Bartkusa: I consume games in a very limited fashion. If I buy a game, it's not going to be because I like the box cover.

Drethelin: I agree with Bart.

Googleshng: My main problem there is that it used to just be when I was buying anime, books, and paper RPGs that I'd get looked at as if I were buying porn. My last vestige went poof about five years back when I walked up to a counter holding Parasite Eve.

Susan: It does matter to me how a game is marketed. If it's marketed based on sex-appeal and stupid violence (as opposed to well-administered socially appropriate violence), then chances are it won't appeal to me.

Zack: If most guys are going to be honest with themselves, given the choice of buying one of two versions of the same game - where A is non-scantily clad and B is scantily clad--we'd go for option B.

Brian: Then there's an aspect you need to accept that the characters were designed that way for a reason.

Googleshng: Right: That Tetsuya Nomura is a total pervert. In any case, does anyone have any parting thoughts on this subject before we move on?

Brian: The personalities of the characters enables them to wear those types of clothing(or the lack thereof). Why? Because it's their nature.

Drethelin: Boobies are good, but you can have too much of a good thing

Bartkusa: That sums it up aptly.

Susan: What a character looks like is just frill. It's what makes them up beyond that that counts... however, cooler clothing is more fun to draw... ;)

Zack: And less boring to watch.

Brian: Regardless of what I've said here, I really do enjoy seeing someone well-clothed over seeing a bunch of skin. If I'm going to see that much skin, I'd prefer complete nudity, after all.

Susan: And I admit that it's damned fun to design cool-looking clothing, so I understand why designers DO it!