Michael: The Roundtable returns from its hiatus, and I, Michael Bischoff will be bringing it to you yet again! I now introduce you all to our lovely panelists!

Cortney: Hey, it's me, Cortney Stone. You know, the feminist chick who writes news and shows up in Editorials and Q & A every once in a while.

Googleshng: I'm Googleshng, you may remember me from such roundtables as practically all of them, and the Q&A column.

Orie: I'm Orie House, I write news here at RPGamer and I enjoy having epic battles with the News Head Castomel as my main means of entertainment.

Nathan: Seeing as how they loved me so much last time I, Nathan Lee, am joining the round table again for more fun filled adventures. In case you missed it, I took part in the E3 roundtable as a guest panelist and once again I will be participating as some random person that RPGamer picked up off the streets. Hope everyone reading this enjoys what I have to say. :)

Doug:I'm Doug Hill, former RPGamer staff member for four years. I'm now in the real world after graduating college. Pity me.

Michael: Thanks for making yourselves known, guys. Now, down to business. The console market is already supporting three consoles, and one handheld, but two companies think they can stake their own claim in the ever-growing video games industry. Infinium Labs' console, Phantom ,and Nokia's handheld/cellphone, nGage, are the newcomers. Does either company stand a chance of success?

Cortney: Nintendo and Sony have a strong customer base. Not too many people may be willing to pick up a newcomer to the handheld market. This goes for both consumers and game developers. Personally, I'm not interested in either one. It's just something else I'd have to sink money into just to get a couple of decent RPGs, and that's only if the systems actually have decent RPGs. If they want to get the attention of consumers, they are going to have to come up with a truly remarkable game. Frankly, I can't see that happening.

Googleshng: As a general rule, I don't give any console startups a snowball's chance of success, and most of them live up to my expectations. Here we have people trying to get a foot in the door after everyone else is well entrenched, but before a new generation of consoles wars kicks off. Not the best time to try and get a foothold there. Doesn't help their case that if I weren't press I wouldn't have heard of either system.

I give the nGage better odds than the Phantom though. The cellphone craze is running pretty strong lately, and the Phantom's notion of doing everything online seems to clash with the fact that last I checked most consoles are bought for their kids by clueless parents at the mall.

Michael: Infinium Labs has said they're going to have the Phantom released this year. All this without having yet announced a single major developer, a single exclusive game, or releasing any screens or videos from any games. Is this thing going to launch with such exciting titles like Poker and Minesweeper? Without any games to sell this console, this is a fish out of water already.

As for the nGage, I'm hardly impressed. I demoed it at E3, and as a portable, the buttons are way too small and spaced too close together. After all, this thing is also a cell phone. The games are also not worth my time. I don't want to waste $300 on a flashy cell phone that can play rehashed versions of Tony Hawk and Tomb Raider.

Also, there are no RPGs in all of this. My $100 investment in my GBASP has proved to be a better one, as there are a great number of RPGs to play.

Orie:Well the whole nGage thing is pretty much wasted on me...$299 for a handheld, cell phone or no that's too rich for my blood. I've never owned a cell phone, I've never seen any real reason to, and I don't now. Yes, I may be the only person in this situation, but I don't see why anyone else would want it either. Ever heard of the Tiger game.com handheld console? Didn't think so, I have one and I have about three games. This is what I see happening to the nGage, there's a lot of Sega, but practically nothing else. It's too expensive and not for a gamer who has a GBA, which has way more games and most likely will always have more games.

As for the Phantom, it will probably have lots of games, just like it claims. One problem, they'll all probably suck. Quantity over quality and all that. I can't get Broadband, I know a lot of people who can't get broadband. How can you download any decent game if you don't have broadband? Therefore, the console is targeted to a minority already. If you want to play PC games use a computer. And honestly, who would port games to it? It just doesn't make sense.

Nathan:Working in an actual gaming store where I am asked daily about what in the world the nGage and Phantom systems are and then seeing people's reactions I do belive a larger portion of people arn't willing to fork over the amount of money these 2 systems are going to cost in compairson to some of the other systems out there. Why would someone spend an extra $250 for a system that plays horrible games on a smaller screen than the Gameboy Advance? And the Phantom is done by such a small company I do not think that most people will ever even hear of it. Kind of like the CDI or Intellavision. Most people have no clue what those things even were. I'm also not sure why everyone is considering the nGage a new gaming console seeing as how it is no different than some of the cell phones currently out. In fact there are already several phones out on the market that use the same cards as the ones being used for the games so it is possible that they may even play those games. For a cell phone and for it's price it is not all that bad. But as long as people keep looking at it as a video gaming system I don't think it will do very well.

And lastly while the Phantom is in theory a good idea, in the real world though it is the worst idea ever. The idea of having to download you games sounds horrible. I'm not sure exactly most people understand just how large some games are or how long it takes to download 3 gigabytes but I can imagine it would take days to download before you were ever even able to play a game. And by that time you most likely will not want to even play the game.

Doug: First the nGage: it was slightly interesting as the most powerful handheld until Sony announced the PSP. Now it is simply a toy for the rich and lazy. Why? Well, I bet for $300 you can get a PSP and a decent standard Nokia (or Motorola) instead, even if you have to wait a year. Also, who wants to risk their battery draining while playing games that are nearly a decade old when you could miss an important call? The nGage is a JOKE.

Now the Phantom, and I have to admit that while downloading games does not sound practical, I've read interview after interview showing that these guys have done their homework and have a very solid business backing. The idea is very good, and honestly what I was expecting from the Xbox originally: a console system that plays computer games and takes a lot of the difficulty out of the system. This is, in fact, what Microsoft themselves is aiming the next version of Windows to do, and in this case they are just ahead of their time. They're laying groundwork, and with online distribution, I'm sure they aren't expecting huge sales like PlayStation 2 and.. well, PlayStation 2. I hesitate to underestimate these guys. I really do.

Googleshng: We all seem to be on pretty much the same page here, so I'll just stress again that for systems that plan to hit the market in a few days, it really is distressing how they still haven't really gotten their names out there.

Michael: 'll agree with you, Doug, about the nGage. I do not agree with you about the Phantom, on the other hand. For me, I really don't care how ahead of their time Infinium is, nor do I care much about their console's features. I care about the games, and I have not yet seen a single one. If these interviews make note of them, please, show me where they are and I'll gladly read them. But without any games, especially given they want to release the Phantom this year, this thing will be a fantastic flop. Finally, I think the rest of the gaming public would agree that the games make a system, not its extra features. I'm going to go in circles now, so I'll stop.

Orie: Well as far as a console that plays computer games easier, I just don't see that as a technical possibility, you might be able to take the hardware issues out, but the software issues will remain a nightmare not matter what you do, and even if you standarized the hardware, that hardware would almost be just like a specific Dell configuration, its out there but all the games still won't conform to it. For a "PC Console" as it were, I would prefer my own homebrew methods, I actually diagrammed out such a thing a while back. A nice little box that would do it all, much like the PSX, with video recording and DVD playback, wireless keyboard and mouse, that sort of thing. I think that is the best route, but it doesn't work well as a business thing.

Nathan: Seeing as how no one wants to talk about the nGage I will. And I once again I would like to point out that as a cell phone the nGage is not all that bad or a joke. A friend of mine recently bought a cell phone that can also take pictures, send email, browse the internet, and play games for about $250. Now this nGage can send email, browse the internet, play games, play mp3's, let you record your games, play them against other people, and it is also an FM radio! Now for $300 I'd say that is pretty good. And I belive Googleshng said that they havn't really gotten their names out there? In the town I live in, there is a horrendous amount of nGage signs and other various marketing things around everywhere. That also might be because I live in an area where about 80% of the people over the age of 13 have cell phones.

Doug: No one will question that nGage has some of the best features of a cell phone, but games are not the primary use of a cell phone, and because of that, it is not a viable option as a portable gaming system compared to GBA or the upcoming PSP.

As for games on the Phantom. no, you haven't heard any names yet. That's because they haven't fully unveiled everything. They've listed no game names or publisher names, but they've been hinting at a LOT of big names being in on this, and those will be revealed in the next week or so. If they live up to it, we're talking recent big-time games, not shareware breakout crap stuff. Right now, the ball is in their court, but once again don't be surprised if they pull some really nice AAA titles out. Also, these guys have been talking about special versions of these games meant to work with the Phantom, not like the Dell crapjobs. Micro-ports, in a way. Companies are willing to participate because Infinium is doing it for them, if I remember correctly. This is a box with guaranteed-to-work PC games for much less than the average PC. That's the definition of a console system.

Googleshng: When you're going to hit the market in about 2 months, if all you're doing is hinting that big name developers of MIGHT have games ready to go that you'll like, it either means you're making a desperate attempt to hide the fact you have nothing, or you have flat out the most retarded marketting department in the world. I'd lean more towards the former myself though, since developers have a tendency of shouting everything they're working on from the rooftops when they're about ready to go.

Michael: Goog pretty much made my point for me. The Phantom will be unveiled online on August 17th, so we'll just have to wait. If their showing is impressive, I might change my mind on the Phantom.

Finally, a quick statement about the nGage. Nokia is pushing this thing to compete in the handheld market, and given that it's simply an overblown cellphone, and a good one at that, it stands no chance of dislodging the GBA. We'll have to wait on the PSP.

Nathan: I agree with Googleshng about the Phantom's marketing program. First they tell people they have a system that is going to play every game ever only to have every big name video game company wanting to sue them for everything, then they tell people they have some games. Only they are hidden from everyone and they don't feel like telling where they are. To me this sounds more like an April Fools' joke, only they missed April by a few months. And I agree with Michael on his last statement about the nGage so I guess I'll let that drop.

Orie: As for the nGage as a cell phone, if I was to buy a cell phone it would be one that I could dial with one hand. The nGage's number pad seems arranged in such a way that this would be difficult. And in all honesty, if I wanted a MP3 player or digital camera I would (and did) buy a MP3 player or digital camera. Besides, Nintendo can make peripherals that do these things for their Game Boy. There was the Game Boy Camera and even an MP3 player. If the nGage does steal some of the market, Nintendo might just steal it right back. I agree with Google about the Phantom developers. The people that work there must be insane to not tell people that Microsoft (unlikely) or whoever is backing them. No one will give the console a second look. The whole project is so secretive that one really has to wonder if they have ANYTHING under that mysterious cloth (go to www.infiniumlabs.com to see what I'm talking about).

Doug: I don't think that Infinium expects a launch like the other systems, and they don't need one as much either. The profits that standard console makers get is off of games, and Infinium does not have any first party titles that I'm aware of. I'm banking that they are actually getting money from licensing the use of their console to the big companies. If they didn't have that kind of backing, I doubt they would've gotten that far. My bottom line on this is expect to see more than you think when they fully unveil, and even if they are quiet at first, I wouldn't count on them going away quickly. This is more of a side market than competition with the other consoles, due to different sales goals.

Michael: I think we can agree that Nokia isn't make a very smart move trying market the nGage as a competitor to the Game Boy Advance. If they'd leave it as just a really snazzy cell phone, it'd work out just fine. As for the Phantom, I think we should all reserve judgement until it is finally revealed. We only have less than a week before we find out for sure.