Justin: There has been a lot of discussion about the differences in graphics between systems. What about the style of these graphics? What are your feelings about the usage of highly realistic graphics versus highly stylized graphics?

Googleshng: In a perfect world, I'd like every game to have its own unique visual style. Realism is nice for things like Shenmue, but more often than not, I prefer as much creativity as possible.

Alex: To be honest, I don't care how good or bad the game's graphics are as long as they don't get in the way of the game itself. I think that was the case with FF8. Also, it needs be clear whether or not a game is there to be art, or a game. I think Legend of Mana was a good "artistic game", but it wasn't particularly fun. Another example is FFX. The graphics in that game were incredible, to say the least. But didn't anyone else feel like it was just sort of leading them from one thing to another? No mazes, no real puzzles, and no actual choices.

Tony: What about cel-shading? I hate it. I think it's awful. It looks horrible and I'm sick of people saying "It gives anime styled graphics" because it does not!

Googleshng: Cel-shading has a history of being implemented terribly, but I wouldn't say it's without potential.

Tony: All right, I'll give you that, Google. Zelda, in particular, seems to be taking advantage of it.

Matt: I agree with Googleshng quite a bit. Style should be dependent on the content of the game. As he mentioned, Shenmue had a nice implementation of realism. Other games are stylized to a point that fits their content nicely. Shenmue wouldn't have worked as well with stylized or anime-style graphics, but at the same time, I don't think that a game like SaGa Frontier would work well realistically. However, I don't agree with Tony. Cel-shading does not mean the designers are going for an "anime" look. An anime style can be achieved, yes, but both Japanese and American animation use the same techniques for creating an image, so it's not necessarily an anime look. As Googleshng mentioned, Zelda seems to be paving the way for cel-shaded games, and I think that the stylized look is better than the realistic look many people originally thought it was going to have.

Doug: Graphics are all about enhancing the mood of the game for the player. If a game has an eerie, gritty setting, it will appeal more if the game is supposed to be that kind of a sci-fi or horror game. If the game is bright and sunny, it wouldn't make a good horror game. As far as certain graphical styles, I'm not really an expert. I just know what I like and don't like, and I really don't like cel-shading much more than anything else.

Matt: Doug has it pretty much right, coming from an artist's point of view. Of course, the graphical style is usually determined by people much higher up in the chain.

Tony: That brings up a point that was mentioned earlier. When does a game go from being a game to an excuse for the developers to cram as many shiny things in it as they can?

Googleshng: 1997, roughly.

Justin: Yeah, the advent of widely available CD-ROM in a popular game system helped. PC/Mac developers went through the same phase with contentless "interactive movies" like Myst.

Tony: In the end, do the graphics really matter? Look at games like Arc and Lunar. Great games by any description, yet by graphical standards, they're archaic.

Doug: Graphics do matter, because graphics sell games, and if you can't sell games, you can't make more games. If you have superior French vanilla ice cream and cheap regular vanilla, if you cover the cheap stuff with toppings and sprinkles, it is far more appealing.

Googleshng: Indeed.

Alex: I don't think money should even be an issue when it comes to game design. Look at some of the modifications and free stuff that people churn out in their free time. Heck, I play a mod for Unreal Tournament that's a lot better than some commercial games I've played. You think about the game a lot more when you're not trying to figure out how to sell it.

Tony: What about Fresh Games, that branch set up by Eidos? They've said, straight out, that they're losing money on the games they make. Yet they still make them. Making money is not the only way to make more games.

Doug: These are good examples, but represent less than 1% of the market. I'm going into this business myself, and have read tons of books and talked to many people about this very subject. This business is about making great games, but it is still a business, and without money, there is no Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Lunar, etc.

Googleshng: Alex and Tony seem to be forgetting the little detail that making games does cost a great deal of money most of the time. Game budgets now can often reach millions of dollars, as do the profits. Look at the sales figures on, say... Vanguard Bandits compared to FM3.

Tony: Mostly because of all the graphics they try and squeeze in! Reduce the frills, and the costs go down.

Doug: The days of garage gaming are all but over. You can't make a game in your garage that is a commercial success.

Alex: Who do you think makes game mods? Multi-million dollar companies?

Doug: Without those companies, there would be no games to modify.

Googleshng: Plus, that's not game design.

Alex: So far I've seen two games picked up and sold as products after they were free.

Matt: Those are in the vast minority.

Tony: What about Ragnarok Online?

Doug: They've been trying to get Ragnarok Online working for years now, and it is still quite buggy, and far from profitable.

Alex: I still think there's room for creativity. You just have to know, as a game designer, what to expect in return.

Doug: I couldn't agree more. You just can't do it without a budget.

Alex: If you've got a computer and the knowledge, what more do you need?

Matt: Time, money...

Justin: Expensive software...

Doug: LEGAL expensive software, distribution methods...

Justin: An advertising budget...

Alex: So go get a job doing something else, use that to pay your bills, and use your free time to make video games.

Matt: If you have a job, your time to work on programs will be extremely limited. I barely have time to work on my AppleScript-based proof-of-concept program Hangman.app with school, and jobs take up even more time.

Googleshng: To be a commercial success, you also must get a game to the masses, who won't even look at a game unless it has huge production values and an expensive ad campaign.

Alex: Who says you have to sell your game to the masses to be successful? Who says it can't start at the bottom and work its way up when kid A says to kid B, "I just played this really cool game, and you should try it out!"

Googleshng: The definition of "commercially successful."

Alex: Then who says you have to be commercially successful?

Googleshng: Well, this conversation started with a discussion on why professional game designers concentrate on high end graphics. If their games weren't successful, they wouldn't be professional for long.

Alex: I think these "professional game designers" have pushed the standard too far up, like a lot of other media. I guess that's a topic for another discussion, though.

Doug: My close friend and former RPGamer colleague Andrew Bilyk is a good example of how to get around this problem. He's currently setting up a development studio to work on a new project. (And yes, I'm working on the project, too, if you're curious.) He hopes that we will have it done by Game Developers Conference next year. Yes, the games can be made, albeit with great difficulty, but the main point is that it is hard to put the game out in the market without a publisher who knows what they are doing. That is where you have to find the budget. And that's why style is important in gaming. Err... it seems we got off topic there. I think I know the perfect way to end this, though: Not with our words but the words of someone who embodies RPG art, Yoshitaka Amano: "I believe that realism is one of the major drawing styles. I think the world will be more fun if there are various styles."

Justin: Ok, that's just about it for our roundtable. I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as we enjoyed talking tonight.

Doug: This is Doug Hill saying God speed, and if you have a house on the beach, I am NOT stalking you. I just enjoy the walks, honest!

Tony: Rest assured, you've not seen the last of me! Ohohohohohohhohoh!

Alex: I can also be found frequenting the Bob & George community. Stop on by if you have weird fetishes with Mega Man and/or sprite comics.

Matt: All I have to say is "style is cool."

Justin: Well, again, thanks for reading, and goodnight!