Justin: Arguably the "true RPGs" are the dungeon crawls of old. Games like Wizardry and Rogue are closer to the genre's D&D roots than most modern RPGs. RPGs have evolved into the Final Fantasies and Dragon Warriors we know today, but games like Lufia: The Legend Returns and Dungeon Siege have partially returned to these roots, and found a large audience at the same time. Why do you think developers have been bringing them back, and what do you think of their "gameplay before story" focus?

Matt: I'd say the appeal isn't because of role-playing or adventure at all. There is one primal urge in almost every gamer: the urge to get "Phat Lewts" and level up. We love getting new weapons and raising stats, and dungeon crawls pander to that desire the best.

Brent: Should we allude that there is always a bit of a benign connection, then, between RPG and its fantasy D&D-like roots? Because the RPG has evolved far beyond that, is the topic at hand a part of this? Perhaps another stage in the evolution?

Michael: Gameplay should always come before the story in my opinion. Why should I buy a game with shoddy gameplay and a great story? You would be better off just buying a book or downloading the game's script online.

Matt: Just think of the Final Fantasy VI port for PlayStation. Great game, horrid port, low popularity.

Michael: Exactly, no game is worth playing when rendered unplayable. Quite a simple aspect of design.

Brent: But what if the game needs the story? Maybe that's why. Game designers realize they need to flesh out their flat titles, they're getting old.

Googleshng: I agree that gameplay should always be given a higher priority than story. However, that's not really what you get from dungeon crawls or MMORPGs. They have no story sure, but the gameplay is incredibly basic and shallow.

Michael: If both the gameplay and story work though, it's really a moot point.

Googleshng: I'd like to see more games like Skies of Arcadia and Shadow Hearts, which provide some interesting and challenging gameplay, and even manage to have a decent story in there, too.

Brent: I'd like a game like Shadow Hearts, but for my age bracket. At E3, I nearly choked on laughter.

Googleshng: Uh, I said Shadow Hearts. Not Kingdom Hearts.

Brent: Eep, sorry about that, I know the difference, just wasn’t thinking right.

Googleshng: There's a world of difference.

Brent: Yeah, there is :)

Justin: Of course, it does seem that the majority of gamers do prefer story to gameplay, as seen by the popularity of certain RPGs and the ignorance of others. The one place where this opinion seems to change is in MMORPGs. MMORPGs are the closest the market has gotten to a modern, successful RPG that has virtually no change in gameplay from RPGs released decades ago.

Googleshng: True. The most popular console RPGs in the last few years are the ones where you're practically just watching a movie. Rigid story, no strategy or challenge.

Brent: Perhaps the reduction in story for the sake of multiplayer gameplay is a testament to the merger going in the opposite direction? Borrowing just enough fantasy and basal storyline elements to unify around a theme?

Michael: MMORPGS have their own allure though. The fact that you're online and can interact with other players from across the world is attractive to many.

Matt: I agree, I don't play EverQuest every day because of the story, even though I swear by story in RPGs. You have to have either a rigid story, or none at all. Walking around the world can be quite fun, and it panders the best to "Phat Lewtz" syndrome. Dungeon RPGs allow for easier control, certainly, and that allows them to open up questing and actual interaction between people. I'd rather not have an FF8 online with that draw system...

Googleshng: That's a good point. I'm always looking down on MMORPGs for having such basic hack and slash gameplay, but if you had complex strategy to deal with, it'd be rather hard to talk on the side.

Justin: So what you're saying is that because the gameplay is so simple, people are free to be themselves.

Brent: So what about Shadowbane, which promises a strategy/RPG mix?

Justin: From what I've seen of Shadowbane, the gameplay itself is as simple as other MMORPGs... it's just that you can combine different simple gameplay elements to do complex things.

Matt: There is a great deal of strategy and tactics in MMORPGs. Especially if you play on a PvP server, the "basic" gameplay allows for infinitely more strategic options than the most complex Final Fantasy.

Googleshng: I've been saying for years that what's really needed are MMORPGs with characters pitted against each other in massive wars. There's a few logistics problems there which I believe we discussed in an earlier roundtable.

Brent: Well, we just may be on the verge of that.

Matt: I'd argue we've had it for quite some time. Dark Age of Camelot, especially.

Brent: I'd argue we tried to have it, but have come up horribly short. Dark Age of Camelot has captured the essence of that, but still hasn't reached the level I think we all really want to see. Mythic may accomplish it with their next title, coming closer to that realized concept. Star Wars: Galaxies may be able to accomplish that level of interaction, but I don't harbor hopes...yet.

Matt: Some EverQuest servers have it as well. Shadowbane will incorporate it as we've already said, but there will always be the element of competition. Guilds in a non-war game will be competing via strategy to get the best in-game kills, for instance.

Brent: Well I think Shadowbane will have the corner market on political entities in its game, from what I've read. Guilds, groups, etc.

Matt: I agree, the strength of multiplayer dungeon crawls, in absence of story, is leveling up, and most importantly, being "social." Just like playing D&D. Playing D&D alone would hardly be as fun.

Michael: Again, a major attraction of MMORPGs being the social interaction that goes with playing online. I feel that many underestimate that fact.

Justin: So, to sum this up: Story can make up for simple gameplay, but simple gameplay allows for much more interaction in a community... and the recent slew of dungeon crawls have been to try to bring part of that community aspect to a single-player game. Of course, the only games I've played recently that have successfully done that have been Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind.

Googleshng: I wouldn't say that story makes up for simple gameplay... it just attracts a different audience.

Matt: It all depends, the right balance makes for the difference between reading a book, writing a book, and shredding a book... All can be fun. :)