07/20- 12:00PM EST
Not since the contest that had many of you
readers sending in pitches
for sequels have I had this much letter
volume on one subject. I guess
many of you are big Suikoden fans!
We
have one other topic this week as well, as
I'll be giving you
my top five most hated RPGs. Also be sure to
check out my Heroes of Ruin review,
which can be viewed here.
Anyway, Suikoden
time!
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Hey Wheels,
Since there's been a lot of really cool
discussion about Suikoden and its Water Margin
provenance, I figured
I'd chime in with a letter for those who are
stayed awake through it.
Wheels
By
all means! I
hadn't known about the Water
Margin
connection at all, and I'm sure
others are in the same boat. I'd
be
happy to hear more about it.
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What may be more interesting to Suikoden
players about Water Margin is
that the resemblance between the two goes
far beyond the characters in
the first game. The structure of the
game, the overall premise,
and several major events (the tea house,
Teo's armored cavalry, the
luring of Lepant) are pulled straight from
the novel.
Wheels
Very
interesting,
so does this mean we give the
original creator of Suikoden
a bit too much credit? I
mean, he did convert a lot of
the elements into an amazing
game, but
that just makes it sounds like
he wasn't quite as ingenious as
we
thought. Still, I'd really like
to read the book to see all
these
connections.
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Lesser known, though, is that Suikoden
II has its narrative roots in
Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Many characters, events,
and even the overall structure of the
narrative follow the novel - the
most obvious being Luca Blight's basis in Lu
Bu and Shu's basis in
Zhuge Liang (who was recruited to Liu Bei's
side after three visits -
for an example). If you're looking for
a narrative similar to the Suikoden
games, I would recommend Romance of
the Three Kingdoms (Moss Roberts'
translation) over Water Margin. Less
brutality,
better structure, and much more interesting
politics.
Wheels
See
I did not
expect that, and it makes me
wish I had read Romance
of the Three Kingdoms
like
I had wanted to many years ago.
Anyway this means that this
novel has influenced an absurd
number of games. I'm going to
have to
track down a copy of that. Based
on the price of the complete set
of
books I've seen on Amazon I may
start with the abridged version.
With this in mind, is Suikoden
III
influenced by any classic
novels? I'm going to have to
investigate this.
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Opinions may vary on which game is
the best,
but to me it's hard to go wrong with any Suikoden game.
It's a
fantastic series, and it got me interested
in some of the best novels
I've read.
Wheels
I
would have to agree. An amazing
and somewhat underrated series,
given
the tepid critical reception the
first two games received on
their initial release. We can
only hope that more happy days
await in the
future. I'd love to see an HD
collection of the PS2 games! I
hope many
readers will check out these
novels, sounds like they are
classics
worth reading.
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As another member of the Gaiden
translation team, there are some pretty cool
events in the game, but
the first one really feels like just a love
letter to S2
fans (not that anything's wrong
with that...). I've heard Gaiden
2 has more wholly new material.
Wheels
I'm
going to
have to give the translation a
try, and I'll ask at the same
time, any
plans on translating the second
Gaiden
game?
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Finally, since it is Q&A, a question -
Would you recommend Romancing SaGa
PS2 to someone who
didn't really enjoy SaGa Frontier?
I
enjoyed the Game Boy/DS SaGas
a bunch, but SaGa Frontier
seemed to have practically no plot or
guidance, depending on which
character you picked. I've heard mixed
reviews, but I'm
interested in giving the entry a shot.
-Niahak
Wheels
So
long as you
liked the battle system in SaGa
Frontier I would give Romancing
SaGa a try. It's a bit
more clear about were to go in
most of
the characters' stories. It also
adds some nice touches to the SaGa
battle system and has a
graphical style that looks like
a 16-bit game morphed into 3D.
The
soundtrack rivals the best of
Square Enix's long and storied
musical
history. I can't say the story
has a great translation or
anything,
but it certainly is better than
sub-par translation that you
suffered
with in SaGa
Frontier. It's
still available for pretty
cheap, so trying it out is a
low-risk, high
reward proposition. It's a much
more complete and better
structured RPG
on the whole. If you try it out,
please write in and let me know
what
you think!
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Suikoden Developers
Conference
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In a lot of ways, Suikoden is
both a modern developer's dream and a
nightmare. What's freaky is
that it is for the same reasons that it is
both. It's a dream
because it has such a well-constructed
world, with rich characters and
history... and its a nightmare because that
depth makes it impossible
for a writer to take extreme liberties with
a lot of story
elements. It doesn't have the
absurdity of a Pokemon or similar games,
where you
can use the game world in neurotic ways and
no one will complain as
long as they get their fix.
Wheels
A
fair point I suppose. Explains
why most JRPG series don't try
to do the whole connected world
thing. Gives their developers
more freedom. Still, I love a
world with many games taking
place in it, using a shared
history and mythology. Can't
developers suffer for our
enjoyment (I kid, I kid!) ?
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The main reason this is a problem - to be
blunt - is that there is
hardly any decent writing talent left in the
jrpg business
anymore. Those that are still around
are almost entirely locked
up in what amounts to lifetime employment
(the Xenogears
writers with Nintendo, as
an example), and those that aren't demand
prices a greatly weakened
company such as Konami can't afford or
simply aren't willing to pay
even if they can afford it.
Wheels
That's
a real shame. I suppose
complicating the lack of good
writers is the increased number
of JRPG released over there
compared to years past. So there
isn't much Konami can do for the
Suikoden
series then if they can't even
afford to get some great writers
to work on it?
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However, it's not in the best interest of
the company to let a popular
series name rot. So they try to find a
way to use it.
Unfortunately, they run into the second part
of the writing issue...
people who can write serious, down to earth
narratives in Japan don't
write for jrpg companies for the most
part. So, like many
extremely short-sighted people before them,
they decide to put together
a random game with only the vaguest
resemblance to the main series in
an attempt to keep the fans they have, in
the hopes that the situation
will be resolved with time.
Unfortunately, this action backfires,
alienating the hardcore fanbase and causing
them to react by putting an
even more randomly put together game
on the market, because
learning from mistakes isn't something that
game makers do very well.
Wheels
I
wonder, did they just overreact
to the sales issues with Suikoden
V? Suikoden
IV obviously wasn't a
critical or fan darling, even if
it wasn't hated by all, so
shouldn't they have expected a
drop after that? Seems like it
still sold well enough to be
popular, did they ever really
analyze why the fifth game
couldn't match the sales of the
previous game?
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Also, looking at it from Konami's
perspective, the very controversy
between hardcore fans and people who like
the 'regular jrpg' atmosphere
of the portable games in the series
increases awareness of the series,
actually increasing the chances of decent
sales if they manage to make
a new game in the main series... though that
is just a hope on my
part. So, either Konami is being
extremely clever or extremely
short-sighted. My personal opinion is
for the latter, but I won't
dismiss the former out of hand.
Sincerely,
Travis Lucius
Wheels
I'm
going to go with the
short-sighted bit. If anything
it has just increased awareness
of why the original games are so
awesome and how the portable
games just can't hold up. I'm
not sure what Konami will do
next with the series, but
clearly they need to rethink
their approach. Perhaps stall
with some HD re-releases?
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Hi, this is my first time sending a letter
here, so hopefully I don't
ask you something you've answered 1000 of
times already... Anyway, as a
huge Suikoden
series fan, I'm
starting to feel lucky that 6 games came out
in the original world
considering how mismanaged it was and
everything. I do wonder, though,
if the series would have survived better if
it had been published by a
company with more games in the RPG market
like Square. Nowadays I buy
games from many different publishers and
developers, but there was a
time when the games I played were almost all
Square RPGs because that's
what my brother and his friends were buying.
I guess I am lucky one of
his friends had a copy of Suikoden
that I was able to play, which led me to
keeping an eye out for the
rest of the games.
Wheels
I'm
not so sure that it would have
done better under a different
publisher. Heck, I'm not so sure
Square would have taken the
chance on Suikoden,
and may have even done a worse
job localizing the first two
games. Square does a good job
pushing their big titles, but
sometimes not so for the smaller
ones. I think Nier
could have done better for them
for example. Also, being the
only RPG series from a famous
developer like Konami gives it a
bit more allure, rather than
getting lost in the crowded
catalog of an RPG heavy
publisher like Square. Then
again Konami didn't exactly do a
great job advertising the early
games here in the West, so I
could be very wrong.
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Also, while I enjoyed Suikoden
Tierkreis, the game doesn't offer
up an obvious idea for a
sequel. And instead of trying to continue in
this new world, it seems
like Konami was trying to bring us yet
another world with the PSP game.
Even if the PSP game had gotten good
reviews, I'm not sure switching
from world to world after spending so much
time in one world was a good
idea for the survival of this series. I
can't speak for most fans, but
I'm sure I'm not the only one who was became
invested in the world more
than each individual story. I would have
preferred Suikoden
Tierkreis 2 to a
completely new Suikoden game.
Wheels
I
agree wholeheartedly. They
didn't seem to have much of a
plan to continue the series
beyond this one game. This isn't
a series like Final
Fantasy with a history
of massive changes between
games. Like I described in the
previous letter, I think they
greatly overreacted to Suikoden
V not doing as well as
the previous games. It isn't
like V completely
bombed after all. I dunno, I
still don't understand what
Konami is doing.
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In a somewhat related note, with Persona
4 Arena coming out, what other
series would you like to see come
out with an arena game? I think a Suikoden one
would be pretty cool. Well, a lot better
than a slot machine game... I would have
also suggested Xenosaga, but it's too
obvious that
KOS-MOS would have to rule over pretty much
everyone else in that game.
-riulyn
Wheels
I'd
like to see a complete Shin
Megami Tensei
arena game where you could play
as a slew of different demons
and characters from the series.
I think that would be a cool way
to expand from Persona
4 Arena. Other than
that, I'd enjoy some kind of
zany Disgaea arena
game. That could be a lot of fun
if done right!
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What are your five most hated RPGs of all
time?
-SeventhCircle
Wheels
With further ado, here are my top
five most hated RPGs of all time!
Kingdom
Hearts 358/2 Days
I still don't know why I
played the entire game. Reusing
environments from the first Kingdom
Hearts games and containing
a story that moves at a pace slower
than a frozen snail, this game has
nothing to offer. You play a
mission, likely watch a scene with
the main characters eating ice
cream, rinse and repeat. There's
some good ideas in the battle system
that are just wasted by all the bad
ones. You place skills and such on a
board that takes the whole game to
expand enough to be interesting. The
game also replaces MP with a system
that makes magic almost completely
useless. I hate this game.
Star
Ocean 3 or whatever its actual
name is
Let me put this simply, this game
made me scared of tri-Ace games for
years! Featuring an incredibly
boring battle system and a story
that will put a player to sleep and
then blow their mind (in a bad way)
with a twist that ruins the
mythology of the first few games, I
don't think tri-Ace could have
effectively destroyed this series
any other way short of canceling it.
I think it would win or at least
contend for the single worst plot
twist in the history of video game
plot twists. Please don't make me
talk about this game any more!
Silver
You can't make me relive this
nonsense, so I'll
let someone else describe why
I hate it so much.
Cross
Edge
I like NIS America's output in
general. I had enjoyed the heck out
of the Disgaea games and
their other SRPGs, and had a fun
time with many of the other games
they were bringing out, such as Ar
Tonelico 2. So when they
decided to bring over a strange
cross-over title starring characters
from Disgaea, Ar
Tonelico, Atelier,
and even Darkstalkers, I
figured, why not try it out? NIS
America hadn't steered me wrong. Boy
was this a mistake. Not only did the
game have one of the worst and most
inept stories I've ever had the
displeasure to suffer through, the
battle system was utter garbage. The
artwork looked like they took a
rejected PS1 game and inserted some
random 3D models into combat at
times to spice things up. The
sprites make the low-res fair in Disgaea
3 look positively gorgeous.
The game even has the gall to have
horrendous load times despite the
lack of any kind of real graphics to
load. Idea Factory has a bad
reputation as a developer among
gamers, and this game shows exactly
why.
Shining
Force Neo
Shining Force is
a long and storied strategy
RPG series. So what better way to
revive the series after being
dormant for years, than to get the
developer of the Lufia
series to make an action RPG that is
quite possibly one of the worst
action RPGs ever to grace any
system? How could that idea fail?
This game is one of the most heart
breaking pieces of garbage I've ever
been forced to deal with. There are
many ways that Shining
Force Neo could have
successfully brought the series to
an action RPG, but making one of the
major features in the game
gauntlet-like portals you have to
destroy to prevent more monsters
showing up is not one of them. I
won't even get into the voice
acting, because anyone who has
played this game has suffered
through it enough. Developer
Neverland has made a lot of good
games, which even combined can not
make up for this disaster.
Dishonorable mention:
ClaDun
A largely tepid and boring action
RPG in an ugly retro style, this
game is saved from the list by its
absolutely amazing soundtrack.
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That's it for this week folks, kindly
forward your anger for my hated game choices
to wheels@rpgamer
or @AskWheels
on Twitter!
-Wheels
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